Referring to

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Wolf/Article/200912415506480?lpos=UK_News_Second_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_5&lid=ARTICLE_15506480_Award_Winning

A photographer won a 10k prize for taking an image of a Wolf jumping a fence. They are now reviewing it as they beleive the Wolf was tame and not wild.

Surely it is about the final image and not the fact the wolf may or may not have been wild? Really who cares? Do photographers now need to learn to be wolf tamers to guide one along to where he wants them for a shot. Rediculous surely? The concept, the idea and then catching the shot is the challenge.

I just feel this is unfair treatment of this photographer.

M x

DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 22/12/2009 18:34:23   Posted 834 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008

from what I heard they were baiting it and they knew the wolf would come as it did for several days.  The camera was fired remotely via a motion trigger.


If that is the case, what then? 

Well it's not unfair if the whole of the story is true.

If it's a 'wildlife' competition then a manufactured picture isn't eligible. If the rules state that set-up pictures must be declared then the photographer has deliberately used deception. He has broken the rules of the competition. And by entering these competitions you know you have agreed to be bound by the rules of the competition.

In this case it seems that a set-up shot that doesn't even portray realistic behaviour of a wild animal has been entered into a wildlife picture competition in direct contradiction to the rules of that competition.




Shibari rope art.

WykD , Stylist  posted on 22/12/2009 18:59:46   Posted 8 times

Located:Ilkeston,Derbyshire, UK
Member Since: 08/12/2009

Sorry Margaret, it should be disqualified, it's supposedly a wildlife competition not a family pet competition. Using your rules you could get a stuffed one and nail it's hind legs to the floor as long as the picture looked good.

Definitely cheating.

I had to travel virtually to the Canadian border in Minnesota to photograph my wolves (on travel expenses ), I travelled 15 miles on Skidoo's, then walked on 'tennis racquets' for two miles, I'd have been really p*ssed of if my wolf picture had been beaten by a tame one in Spain. 

Tony 

TonyNutley , Photographer  posted on 22/12/2009 23:09:14   Posted 190 times

Located:Southampton/Arundel,Hampshire, UK
Member Since: 31/10/2008

Quoting post from TonyNutley
Sorry Margaret, it should be disqualified, it's supposedly a wildlife competition not a family pet competition. Using your rules you could get a stuffed one and nail it's hind legs to the floor as long as the picture looked good.

Definitely cheating.

I had to travel virtually to the Canadian border in Minnesota to photograph my wolves (on travel expenses ), I travelled 15 miles on Skidoo's, then walked on 'tennis racquets' for two miles, I'd have been really p*ssed of if my wolf picture had been beaten by a tame one in Spain. 

Tony 

I just felt the end image is what matters but I understand your point, you would be miffed for making so much effort to get the same shot, though couldn't this also be judged that the other photographer just showed more initiative in such an instance?

I think the issue in this case is : "The rules of the competition, which attracted more than 43,000 entries, state that images of captive animals must be declared and that judges will give preference to images taken in "free and wild conditions".

So I guess if it turns out to be tame, if he didn't declare it he loses out and that's where it'd be cheating on the rules of this competition.

I suppose as Wykd said, if it is meant to be shooting truly wild animals then the image should depict that and doesn't if it is tame and acting in a tame manner. In the article experts believe a wild one would have gone through the gaps in the fence and not jump it.

My original view was why should a photographer have to go through so many hoops to get the same shot which can be achieved easier with a tame one. Who cares how they get there as long as the end shot is great right? So I just thought why have this rule at all but I understand the view point now.

So Tony, why were you going to shoot Wolves, sounds an interesting project. Love the idea of you with tennis racquets on your feetlooking for wolves. I wouldn't mind seeing the end shots.

So what yo reckon, do you think that guy cheated to get that shot then? Or did he really catch a wild wolf jumping that fence? Either way I love the shot itself.
 

DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 22/12/2009 23:37:08   Posted 834 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008

Margaret go to my website

www.tonynutley.pro

Then go to 'documentaries', third last picture, not a great example but the easiest way of showing one. It's real and had been shot with tranquiliser, it was just waking up, the only way of getting an actor in that close.

It was a wildlife series narrated and starring famous actors and actresses. Tim Dalton was doing wolves in Minnesota and Alaska. I accept that I wouldn't have won the competition either. .
Tony

TonyNutley , Photographer  posted on 22/12/2009 23:56:19   Posted 190 times

Located:Southampton/Arundel,Hampshire, UK
Member Since: 31/10/2008

The rules are the terms and conditions of entry to this International competition and if the tog failed to make clear it was not an animal in the wild, he must be disqualified.

It is interesting to me to see how the story becomes twisted by the use of imotive wording. Though totally irrelevant as the rules are clear but contributors to this thread seem to be confused between wild, tame and "from a zoo". Zoo animals are not tame or trained.  In the context of the competition an animal is either wild or in captivity. 

As Tony will I feel sure confirm. to photograph an animal such as this in the wild you either get very lucky or you spend days or weeks setting it up and using a wealth of knowledge of the species involved. First find a trail used regularly by the animal, knowing that if you are within sight or smelling dstance the fox will never appear. So setting up a camera with flash will be essential as it is largely nocturnal. To fire the flash and the shutter you need to have the animal break an infrared light beam and be precisely at the point on which the camera has been focussed. This requires the fox to approach from the same directionin each time probably encouraged by laying food as bait. After repeated nights encouraging the wild animal you need to introduce something that a) makes the picture more interesting and b) that causes to animal to pause momentarily to allow the infrared beam to set off the flash and camera. A log or some kind of fence would be ideal.

Techniques such as these coupled with immense quantities of patience are the skills of the wildlife photorapher.

In my humble opinion anyone who goes to such lengths and expense to get their images deserves a medal and the acknowledgement that it was a "wild" animal.

Dave 

I'll be sure to check out the image, thanks Tony.

To DavyT, very fair point and it has made me realise that there is a big distinction between photographer and wildlife photographer (doing it solely for a living) or anyone that attempts what I guess we are now calling true wild life photography, i.e. not from a zoo or tame.

I agree the patience, skill, creativity to come up with ways to catch the shot and time innvolved seems extensive and I can see why now they would want to find a way to accomodate this in the competition adding that they show preference to those that do this.

Great thread, thanks to everyone for contributing, very enlightening.

M x

DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 23/12/2009 01:56:29   Posted 834 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008

Bit late to join in I know, but this does remind me of a similar situation that arose a couple of years back in a national photography magazine (probably Photography Monthly). The call was for photographs of wildlife captured in your garden. The winner, who lived in the Midlands, had taken a picture of a "Kestrel" sitting on a post in his garden. Superb shot, well lit and framed. He duly got his prize (and I didn't, sour grapes?) (my effort with a Sparrowhawk  can be seen on my website aebphotography.com) however the next month it was pointed out by many photographers that the Kestrel was an "American Kestrel" which had never been recorded in this country.

The winner then explained that he used to live in America and had taken the shot some years back, and he kept the prize. However a close examination of the picture showed that the top of the post was covered in "atsroturf" and although couldn't be proved looked suspiciously like a perch used at a wildlife park!! by the time this was pointed out I guess everyone had lost the will to carry on and the subject was never mentioned again.

Don't know why I spent ten valuable xmas shopping minutes recounting that story other than I hate cheats!!!! (can't remember the name of the photographer, could it have been Thierry Henry??).

andy b

AEBphotography , Photographer  posted on 23/12/2009 10:31:45   Posted 64 times

Located:Ipswich,Suffolk, UK
Member Since: 28/02/2009

Quoting post from DavyT
The rules are the terms and conditions of entry to this International competition and if the tog failed to make clear it was not an animal in the wild, he must be disqualified.

It is interesting to me to see how the story becomes twisted by the use of imotive wording. Though totally irrelevant as the rules are clear but contributors to this thread seem to be confused between wild, tame and "from a zoo". Zoo animals are not tame or trained.  In the context of the competition an animal is either wild or in captivity. 

As Tony will I feel sure confirm. to photograph an animal such as this in the wild you either get very lucky or you spend days or weeks setting it up and using a wealth of knowledge of the species involved. First find a trail used regularly by the animal, knowing that if you are within sight or smelling dstance the fox will never appear. So setting up a camera with flash will be essential as it is largely nocturnal. To fire the flash and the shutter you need to have the animal break an infrared light beam and be precisely at the point on which the camera has been focussed. This requires the fox to approach from the same directionin each time probably encouraged by laying food as bait. After repeated nights encouraging the wild animal you need to introduce something that a) makes the picture more interesting and b) that causes to animal to pause momentarily to allow the infrared beam to set off the flash and camera. A log or some kind of fence would be ideal.

Techniques such as these coupled with immense quantities of patience are the skills of the wildlife photorapher.

In my humble opinion anyone who goes to such lengths and expense to get their images deserves a medal and the acknowledgement that it was a "wild" animal.

Dave 

Oh my god now I feel such a fraud! I am not, nor ever will be a wild life photographer, I just haven't got the patience, I photograph celebs, actors, whatever. Davy is absolutely right about how to photograph them (Fox! Fox! this was a WOLF), my method was a bit different.

This job involved me being phoned up very late, on a Thursday evening, being flown from Gatwick to Minneapolis-St Paul on Friday morning, catching another Flight to Duluth (I hadn't heard of it either, but apparently it was the original home town of Bob Dylan), From there I hired a car and drove for a couple of hours to a small Town? called Ely near to the Canadian border.

The next morning I drove for about an hour to the back of beyond, and was then driven for about an hour on a snow mobile, there were four of us plus the skidoo drivers. We then had radio contact with a small aircraft that hunted a wolf pack from on high. They eventually found what they wanted, identified which pack it was and wirelessly from the air tranquilised one of the animals. The  American Timber Wolf is a very endangered species, these guys record and protect almost their every movement, so all the wolves are 'collared' and can be tranquilised when needed to check their health growth etc. that apart they are completely wild.  

We got as near the wolf as we could on the 'skidoo's', then had to walk the rest of the way on those 'tennis racquet things' I have never tried anything worse on my feet ever, I was constantly falling over, the journey was one of the most exhausting, depressing things, I have ever done.

We eventually came to the sleeping wolf , they checked all it's vital signs weighed it etc. filmed it and did a little interview with the wolf expert (this guy really was) before the wolf started to wake up, at that point everyone had to get away very quickly.

I'd arranged with Tim what I needed and at that point he ran in and lifted the wolfs head to make it look 'lively', got his own head as close in as he could without looking stupid, and I took six pictures on a motor (covering for blinks etc.) on two cameras, black and white and colour, before I was dragged away by my collar by the others, the wolf was up staggering around for a bit before running off to join his mates, the whole 'photo session' took around 15 seconds.

I then had to trudge back on my 'tennis racquets', a lot easier when you know you've got what you came for, dinner in the hotel, then sleep. The next morning drive and fly back to the UK with twelve frames of exposed film.

A different way again of photographing wildlife! Does this mean I don't get the medal?

Tony 

TonyNutley , Photographer  posted on 23/12/2009 11:05:23   Posted 190 times

Located:Southampton/Arundel,Hampshire, UK
Member Since: 31/10/2008

Thanks Tony.

Next time I'll go for you, if your busy.  On the other hand  a guy who confuses a wolf with a fox probaby wouldln't be your best choice

Dave

Yes Yes Yes

In my view it is the picture first, so many times I have seen competitions restricted to images of  "wild" animals, for example in Northern Ireland I have experience of two competitions where my entry was questioned on the grounds that one of my images locations was Castle Espie, a Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust site. The fact that species at such a location are pinioned should not be relevant as you should be judged on the quality of your photograph. Likewise I think it was the Wildlife Photographer of the Year a year or two back when the winner came in for criticism when the winning image ( possibly of a snow leopard ) was taken with a remote control triggered by the animal. If we use Photoshop to improve the quality of our images what is the problem with using modern technology to get the photograph. Rant over and waiting for responses.

JohnHughes , Photographer  posted on 04/01/2010 11:53:00   Posted 78 times

Located:Carrickfergus,Antrim, UK
Member Since: 10/12/2009

Sorry John but   No  No  No 

“In your view it’s the picture first” and you are entitled to your opinion. It is unfortunately at odds with common thinking and certainly the ethos of wildlife photography. This is probably why you feel unhappy that your entry was questioned. For me there are several issues contained in your contribution. 

Firstly birds that are pinioned or tethered are not truly wild as the means by which they obtain their food is modified, in some cases they are fed by their keepers. Under such circumstances the birds or animals are familiar with humans possibly making it easier for photographers to approach them closely and obtain images that would be much more difficult in the wild. If you can acknowledge, this you may see the reasoning of the rules to try to level the playing field for competitors. 

The second issue for me is the use of remote triggers. We can not stem the flow of new technologies and each new camera model seems to have a list of “new” or better facilities. Is it unfair for some photographers to use partial metering, or perhaps spot metering when others do not have such facilities. My camera does not have flash command over my speedlights. Should I complain or just let those with the most expensive cameras win all the prizes? My own opinion is that remote triggers are little different to building a hide to get close enough to the subject without scaring it away. Photoshop is for me another matter entirely.

You say “If we use Photoshop to improve the quality of our images what is the problem with using modern technology to get the photograph”. I suppose the key words are “improve the quality”  From that I assume you might check levels, complete a simple crop, even increase the saturation, but what about a taking a bird in flight, duplicating it four times, flipping and free transforming some of them to make a flock and changing the background to include a stunning sunset. That’s the trouble with Photoshop and why some competitions set out their rules for all to accept or not bother entering. 

Dave 

For those who don’t know Pinioning is the amputation of the portion of the wing on which the primary flight feathers grow.

• Pinioning is a commonly used method of flight restraint in waterfowl.

• Pinioning allows waterfowl to be kept in large, open enclosures, and avoids the potential problems associated with escaped birds.

 

Davyt

Thanks for your comments and they are the very response I was trying to draw out.

In the case of the questioning of my entries in competitions I was happy to explain that the image was taken on open water in Strangford Lough at Castle Espie, not in the enclosures where birds can be considered as tame animals not wild. I could go on for days discussing my views of WWT versus RSPB, but will simply say RSPB wins every time.

In the case of the Wildlife of the Year I was gutted that the winner used a remote triggered by the animal. For me that is not photography, wildlife photography requires dedication, a willingness to endure adverse conditions, long hours in a hide and maybe, just maybe you get the chance to take a photograph which may not even be the one you sought.

In the case of Photoshop, although I use CS3, it is merely for minor adjustments, I get really pigged off by obvious heavily manipulated images that bear to relation to the essnce of the photograph or photography.

JohnHughes , Photographer  posted on 04/01/2010 21:25:39   Posted 78 times

Located:Carrickfergus,Antrim, UK
Member Since: 10/12/2009

There was an update to this last night in the news. For all those that posted on this thread I wanted to let them know

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/20/wolf-wildlife-photographer-award-stripped

So as discussed here, by the rules of that competition he was found to be a fraud.

I do love the bit that states 'animal models are not allowed', makes me picture this wolf sitting in his dressing gown, barking orders (see what I did there ) at those around him claiming his disgust at working with amateurs. New section for Models, lets add species.  .

M x

DragonLady , Digital Retoucher  posted on 22/01/2010 16:07:08   Posted 834 times

Located:London,London, UK
Member Since: 07/11/2008

Quoting post from DragonLady
There was an update to this last night in the news. For all those that posted on this thread I wanted to let them know

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jan/20/wolf-wildlife-photographer-award-stripped

So as discussed here, by the rules of that competition he was found to be a fraud.

I do love the bit that states 'animal models are not allowed', makes me picture this wolf sitting in his dressing gown, barking orders (see what I did there ) at those around him claiming his disgust at working with amateurs. New section for Models, lets add species.  .

M x

No doubt the ass would refuse to pose because 'My human always looks big from that angle'!

www.smilesphoto.co.uk

Quoting post from DragonLady
Referring to

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Wolf/Article/200912415506480?lpos=UK_News_Second_UK_News_Article_Teaser_Region_5&lid=ARTICLE_15506480_Award_Winning

A photographer won a 10k prize for taking an image of a Wolf jumping a fence. They are now reviewing it as they beleive the Wolf was tame and not wild.

Surely it is about the final image and not the fact the wolf may or may not have been wild? Really who cares? Do photographers now need to learn to be wolf tamers to guide one along to where he wants them for a shot. Rediculous surely? The concept, the idea and then catching the shot is the challenge.

I just feel this is unfair treatment of this photographer.

M x

if the image was a collie dog jumping over the fence would you be as impressed.... dont rate the image at all

This article on the picture gives the perspective of a professional wildlife photographer.

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/wildlife_photographer_rouse_on_the_fallout_from_todays_model_wolf_revelation_news_294027.html

A captive animal has previously won the contest, a gorrilla image shot in a zoo but the judges were able to judge with the facts and not the pretence that the image was of rarely seen behaviour...well rarely seen outside of the wolf's enclosure.

geoffpix , Photographer  posted on 22/01/2010 17:07:13   Posted 19 times

Located:Paignton,Devon, UK
Member Since: 11/06/2009

If it's about the image then why not have a cow jumping the moon.
The rules to the competition were very clear.

From the small experince I have which was tracking wolves in SE Europe with one of the world leading authorities the picture immediately to the knowledge I'd aquired looked contrived.

Having been round the actual exhibition I was not impressed with the image anyway - even if it were genuine.

Let's see. Point camera at gate, set up a flashgun and a trigger, back to bed.

Get up, see if you caught anything.

Wow - that's talent!

There were literally dozens of images more impressive than this one.